| 09:38 | dv | rabeeh: you guys super busy with shipping out the preorders? :) |
| 09:53 | MikeSeth | I sure hope they are |
| 09:53 | MikeSet | 09:53 * MikeSeth ponders volunteering to help.. ship. |
| 09:54 | MikeSeth | I really wanna go visit solidrun offices |
| 10:32 | dv | they need these amazon drones :) |
| 10:37 | MikeSeth | our flight authority would probably be unwelcoming |
| 10:37 | MikeSeth | and by unwelcoming I do mean shoot it down |
| 10:40 | jnettle | 10:40 * jnettlet expects the same to happen in the US, only by gangstas and rednecks |
| 10:41 | MikeSeth | I'd take those over Hezbollah any day, frankly |
| 10:42 | jnettlet | I don't know. I am sure Hezbollah have better aim. |
| 10:42 | MikeSeth | and worse ideas.. |
| 10:43 | jnettlet | dv, are you seeing a performance drop with the Vivante driver under the 3.5.7 kernel? |
| 10:43 | dv | I didnt try 3.5.7 so far |
| 10:44 | dv | neither 3.10 (did you mean that one perhaps?) |
| 10:44 | dv | I'm currently busy finishing some tasks for the beta release of my plugins |
| 10:46 | jnettlet | I know the problem exists in 3.10 but not in 3.0.35, just wondering if it existed in 3.5.7 without having to screw around with getting another kernel I could care less about running. |
| 10:46 | dv | hmm |
| 10:46 | dv | well I was told by otavio not to use 3.5.7 |
| 10:46 | dv | or at least the freescale fork of 3.5.7 |
| 10:47 | dv | I think the reason was that it was in alpha state and got abandoned at some point, since the focus was shifted towards 3.10 |
| 10:48 | jnettlet | probably shifted when it was announced at the next linaro LTS kernel. |
| 10:48 | jnettlet | well Linaro of gkh |
| 10:49 | dv | and/or the pengutronix efforts |
| 10:49 | d | 10:49 * dv finds all of this so confusing |
| 10:49 | dv | pengutronix, boundarydevices, linaro.. |
| 10:56 | hste_ | dv: and the freescale versions of 3.0.35 ......1.0.0. 1.1.0 4.0.0 4.1.0 .... |
| 10:59 | jnettlet | dv, best as I can tell pengutronix hasn't released much on their own recently. It is floating around somewhere in pengutronix land. |
| 11:04 | dv | yeah, the versioning is also weird |
| 11:04 | dv | could be worse, though. vivante has pretty much no versioning except for v2 and v4 :) |
| 11:26 | jnettlet | dv, well their main versioning problem is that they let each chip maker to build their own userland. So really they don't control released versions. |
| 13:39 | jnettlet | MarcusVinter, welcome back. saw your message the other day. |
| 13:40 | MarcusVinter | Oh. Thanks jnettlet. I appriciate it. |
| 13:40 | jnettlet | MarcusVinter, what do you plan on hacking on if you don't mind me asking? |
| 13:42 | MarcusVinter | Mainly just use it for similar purposes as a thin client. I'm waiting for the latest cubox and the C1 is the closest chip-wise. What about yourself? |
| 13:44 | dv_ | jnettlet and _rmk_ are our kernel gurus |
| 13:44 | jnettlet | Mostly u-boot and kernel stuff |
| 13:45 | dv_ | thanks to them, we might see a nice working 3.10 kernel with VPU and GPU support |
| 13:45 | jnettlet | well it works, it is just slow as crap right now. |
| 13:46 | jnettlet | my list of things that could be broken is dwindling so I hope to have that fixed soonish. |
| 13:46 | _rmk_ | btw, Mark Brown now says that my kirkwood asoc patches look good, but there's still a sticking point: Liam's patch to fix DPCM which is incomplete and has no real changelog description |
| 13:47 | jnettlet | _rmk_, is that the one he hacked up at the conference? |
| 13:47 | MarcusVinter | Oh great! It's nice to meet you both. Can't wait for GPU support. |
| 13:47 | _rmk_ | jnettlet: it's one Liam's had since April and hadn't posted |
| 13:48 | jnettlet | oh _rmk_, dv_, I may have made some headway into getting some Vivante contacts. We are sorting out NDA discussions. |
| 13:48 | dv_ | jnettlet: can you also involve wumpus in this? |
| 13:48 | dv_ | because that sounds awesome |
| 13:48 | jnettlet | dv_, it is NDA so wumpus wants nothing to do with it. |
| 13:48 | dv_ | hm. right. |
| 13:48 | jnettlet | can't taint the etnaviv driver |
| 13:48 | _rmk_ | jnettlet: great, I wonder if that means we can start feeding back fixes and improvements into their codebase |
| 13:49 | jnettlet | _rmk_, that is what I am hoping. |
| 13:49 | dv_ | but that also means you cant tell us anything you learn |
| 13:49 | jnettlet | and get a unified driver release |
| 13:49 | dv_ | but at least yes, the fixes can be fed back to them |
| 13:49 | jnettlet | dv_, I already can't as I have seen their v4 client code under an old NDA |
| 13:49 | jnettlet | that is why I am a good candidate to push the relationship. |
| 13:50 | jnettlet | I can't work on kernel and OSS userspace, just can't work on the "hal" layer |
| 13:52 | jnettle | 13:52 * jnettlet also final got a beta firmware to hopefully fix my powerline ethernet adapters so they don't randomly lose their connection. Another 6 month process. |
| 13:55 | rabeeh | MarcusVinter: there is ubuntu with accelerated gpu support if you want |
| 13:55 | rabeeh | ubuntu 13.04 that was packed by jas-hacks_ and hste on the channel |
| 13:57 | wumpus | indeed, NDAd stuff wouldn't really help me much, and I'm not interested in the closed source driver anyway |
| 13:58 | MarcusVinter | rabeeh: Yes please. Where might I find this? |
| 14:02 | rabeeh | please PM me with your email. |
| 14:02 | MarcusVinter | Thanks. |
| 14:36 | _rmk | 14:36 * _rmk_ now has a Lindy spdif to rca converter, replacing the cheapo chinese one - and it seems better. |
| 14:36 | _rmk_ | it's about the size of the cubox too :) |
| 14:39 | MarcusVinter | Can I ask why you went for the spdif on the cubox anyway? |
| 14:40 | MarcusVinter | Its quite an unusual connector appose to 3.5mm |
| 14:47 | _rmk_ | well, spdif gives the possibility to do more than 2 channels |
| 14:48 | _rmk_ | such as squirting out the raw mpeg or ac3 stream into something that can do all the 5.1 etc surround |
| 14:48 | MarcusVinter | Ahhh I see. Makes sense then. |
| 14:50 | jnettlet | and you can don't have the sound out quality compromised by price constraints you may have trying to get a high quality DAC onto the board. |
| 14:51 | _rmk_ | the down-side is you need either a hifi which can accept optical in or a converter. there's some cheap chinese 5.1 converters (spdif to 6 phonos) which, although they "work" they're not all that good (they don't decode the spdif stream synchronously, which causes noticable artifacts such as pitch bending) |
| 14:51 | _rmk_ | the other converters like Lindy are just a DAC, so they don't accept AC3/MPEG streams |
| 14:52 | _rmk_ | but at least they decode synchronously |
| 14:53 | _rmk_ | the cheap chinese one is fine for rock/pop music where you don't have long continuous notes - but really bad with classical music. |
| 14:53 | MarcusVinter | Ahh I see. We have a hifi with spdif in the office and a spare cable about. I'll give it a shot later today. I don't think the cable fits quite right into the cubox though so I may have to bore the hole out a bit. |
| 14:54 | _rmk_ | yea, I had to do that too - you can get some optical cables which do fit :) |
| 14:56 | _rmk_ | my main motivation for getting this box is more for my new panasonic tv, since it also gives optical out and that's about the only way to get stuff out of it and fed into an amp... and being a modern tv, they've gone back to poor quality tinny sound |
| 14:57 | MarcusVinter | Yeah, I've noticed as TV have got thinner, the |
| 14:57 | _rmk_ | previously they improved it so it was actually quite reasonable including the lower end - proper integrated speaker enclosures etc - now they seem to have done away with all that even on the more expensive models in favour of making them slim line |
| 14:57 | MarcusVinter | They have been putting lower quality speakers in* |
| 14:57 | MarcusVinter | Yeah |
| 14:57 | MarcusVinter | It sucks :( |
| 14:57 | _rmk_ | and now you have to also buy a "sound bar" or find some other solution |
| 14:58 | MarcusVinter | Luckily my TV has a 3.5mm that I aux into an old amp to some huge pioneer speakers heh |
| 15:00 | MarcusVinter | It wouldnt supprise me if the manufacturers purposely reduced the quality over time to sell sound bars |
| 15:01 | _rmk_ | I think you're right there |
| 15:02 | _rmk_ | the other reason to using the spdif output from the cubox/carrier1/cubox-i is that you can get audio out of them without needing the tv on :) |
| 15:04 | MarcusVinter | Oh yeah, good point. I guess i'm starting to see the benifits of spdif now. |
| 15:06 | _rmk_ | esp. important as last christmas I had something like two days of music playing off the cubox |
| 15:07 | MarcusVinter | Did SolidRun manage to get around the HDMI audio licensing? |
| 15:07 | MarcusVinter | Oh nice. Did it get hot? |
| 15:08 | _rmk_ | obviously this was the marvell dove version - it gets warm during normal running but not excessively so. |
| 15:09 | MarcusVinter | I like the idea of using the adhesive thermal pad to conduct from the CPU to the metal housing. I assume the idea is that the heat will then dissipate out through the plastic? |
| 15:09 | _rmk_ | I've also had that playing back 4 or 5 hours worth of material almost continuously without problem |
| 15:09 | _rmk_ | well, black radiates better than white :) |
| 15:11 | MarcusVinter | Thats true. When the next cubox is released I might overclock this and use it as a heater. |
| 15:11 | MarcusVinter | Jokes |
| 15:11 | jnettlet | _rmk_, what is your mainline kernel setting the SLUB's cache line size to? I just realized with device-tree my 3.10 kernel is setting it to 64 which wrong should be 32 |
| 15:12 | jnettlet | which is wrong |
| 15:12 | jnettlet | wow I am having some major typing problems today. |
| 15:12 | _rmk_ | some armv7's have 64-byte cache lines |
| 15:13 | _rmk_ | so we do use 64-byte alignment on armv7 |
| 15:13 | _rmk_ | that shouldn't cause a slowdown since 64-byte alignment just results in a little bit of memory wastage |
| 15:16 | _rmk_ | if anyone looks for a SPDIF to RCA box, stay away from the "HD Audio Rush" stuff - the Lindy box so far seems to be streets ahead even though it won't do anything but PCM. |
| 15:18 | _rmk_ | I got the Lindy for ?40 from Amazon |
| 15:19 | _rmk_ | probably cheaper from ebay but can be more problematical if you have to return |
| 15:20 | MarcusVinter | The lindy box stuff looks nicer in your house anyway. |
| 15:20 | MarcusVinter | Could mount it |
| 15:33 | rabeeh | cortex a15 uses 64byte |
| 15:34 | _rmk_ | some a9s too |
| 15:34 | _rmk_ | and a8s |
| 15:36 | _rmk_ | and that means in a multiplatform kernel, we have no option but to use 64 byte alignment for cacheline aligning |
| 16:00 | MarcusVinter | Anyone tried working with Windows EC 7 or anything like that? |
| 20:59 | jnettlet | excellent ubuntu still has a known unpatched bug for ARM on their xorg-server package. Nice work Ubuntu. |
| 21:02 | hste | jnettlet: what sort of bug? |
| 21:03 | jnettlet | hste, nasty crasher in the scheduler for ARM and PPC |
| 21:04 | jnettlet | I think I am done with my Ubuntu image testing. They just can't keep it together at this point. |
| 21:04 | jnettlet | The bug has been diagnosed and fixed for almost 6 months now. |
| 21:05 | hste | we still have to compile our own to use vivante |
| 21:07 | jnettlet | compile our own xserver? nah should just need to compile the driver. |
| 21:07 | _rmk_ | have you stuffed it into their bug reporting system or have you just given up with them? :) |
| 21:08 | hste | have to compile to use dri for vivante |
| 21:08 | jnettlet | I was just thinking about that. But then I looked at my account and not a single bug I have filed has been answered. |
| 21:09 | _rmk_ | oh, the standard problem I run into with bug reporting |
| 21:09 | _rmk_ | which has now resulted in me never reporting bugs to any distro ever |
| 21:09 | jnettlet | actually that isn't true. one bug has been closed as will not fix, or fixed in next release. |
| 21:11 | jas-hacks_ | jnettlet: which ubuntu release you testing? |
| 21:11 | jnettlet | jas-hacks_, the latest 13.11 |
| 21:12 | jas-hacks_ | interesting ... I'm starting on a 13.10 |
| 21:13 | jas-hacks_ | which kernel you at? |
| 21:14 | jnettlet | jas-hacks_, it doesn't happen with the 3.0.35 kernels. It only occurs with 3.10 kernels |
| 21:14 | jas-hacks_ | how stable is 3.10? |
| 21:15 | jnettlet | I am still patching but reasonably stable |
| 21:16 | jnettlet | jas-hacks_, did you have a 3.5.7 built kernel that you were using? |
| 21:18 | jas-hacks_ | Currently I've stayed with 3.0.35 as it seems stable but old. Next task is 3.10 |
| 21:19 | jas-hacks_ | problem is that FSL don't give away much on the state of the kernels |
| 21:20 | jnettlet | jas-hacks_, well I have good chunk of patches I am still working through. Mostly just hacks for stability at this point with TODO's of what the real problem is. |
| 21:20 | jas-hacks_ | Are you just porting C1 board into 3.10 or more? |
| 21:22 | jnettlet | C1 porting is done. I am fixing Vivante stuff and trying to sort out an ever increasingly complex userspace set of drivers. |
| 21:23 | jnettlet | torn between wanting a stable set of drivers now, and not wanting to deal with this binary mess any longer. |
| 21:26 | jas-hacks_ | Does X11 run with Vivante? |
| 21:26 | jnettlet | not right now that is what I am bitching about :-P |
| 21:27 | jas-hacks_ | random crashes/locks ? |
| 21:27 | jnettlet | The problem is the more bugs I fix in the kernel driver the more userspace bugs it exposes. |
| 21:27 | jnettlet | crashes in userspace. I have fixed all the locks in the kernel |
| 21:27 | _rmk_ | jnettlet: you could always go back to the v2 version :) |
| 21:28 | jnettlet | _rmk_, except the GLESv2 implementation in v2 is horrendous |
| 21:29 | jas-hacks_ | So it works 3.0.35? |
| 21:30 | jas-hacks_ | works with 3.0.35 |
| 21:31 | jnettlet | works better. |
| 21:38 | purch | third usb-ttl cable and finally 3.3V! |
| 21:40 | xraxor | anyone received a cubox yet? |
| 21:41 | jnettlet | oh this is interesting. I just read further into Freescale's EULA. Vivante's license is actually listed under appendix A and it seems to be less restrictive. |
| 21:41 | jnettlet | we may be able to use the Freescale libs for the Marvell chips as well. |
| 21:41 | jnettlet | http://fpaste.org/58770/86103310/ |
| 21:47 | purch | where do you keep the latest kernels and images for C1? |
| 21:50 | _rmk_ | jnettlet: so... the question becomes, is the vivante userspace stuff not deemed to be "Freescale proprietary software"... |
| 21:50 | jnettlet | _rmk_, that is what I am trying to discern. |
| 21:51 | jnettlet | Since it is in the Appendix with OSS and Microsoft software then I would have to assume no. |
| 21:52 | jnettlet | Also Freescale's "only use on our systems" legalese isn't legal for OSS licensed software. |
| 21:53 | jas-hacks_ | Are freescale lib/blobs not restricted to the SOC by some chip id check? |
| 21:55 | jnettlet | nah they know better than that. They are shipping most of this to OSS developers so it would be hacked to work anywhere without blinking an eye. |
| 21:57 | jnettlet | _rmk_, Section 2. Licenses |
| 21:57 | jnettlet | 2.1 Separate license grants and rights to Third Party Software, |
| 21:57 | jnettlet | if different from those granted in this Section 2, are as identified |
| 21:57 | jnettlet | on Appendix A. |
| 21:57 | jnettlet | so Vivante is explicitly excluded from the section regarding Freescale licensed technologies |
| 21:59 | jnettle | 21:59 * jnettlet may package them and see if I get served with a take down notice. |
| 22:01 | _rmk_ | so... this is not how to do a website upgrade: announce it the day before, saying it'll be N hours. after N hours say it'll be another two hours. then say it'll be back by X pm. then say it'll be just two more hours. then say they'll get an update from the engineers. then say it'll be a few more hours. then say it'll be tomorrow. |
| 22:04 | jnettlet | :-) I guess they haven't heard of the fallback contingency planning method. |
| 22:04 | hste | I thought such information was just sending a 404 :) |
| 22:05 | jnettlet | 8.2 Choice of Law. This Agreement will be governed by, |
| 22:05 | jnettlet | construed, and enforced in accordance with the laws of the State of Texas. |
| 22:06 | jnettlet | so Freescale is bringing all offenders to justice in Texas! |
| 22:06 | jnettlet | This is also important people. 8.11 Unauthorized Use. The Licensed Software is not intended or |
| 22:06 | jnettlet | authorized for use in anti-personnel landmines, and you agree that it |
| 22:06 | jnettlet | will not be used for this purpose. |
| 22:06 | hste | yes justice is simpler in texas :) |
| 22:07 | jnettlet | yeah, in that the corporation usually wins |
| 22:07 | jnettlet | we can not turn our carrier-1 boards into anti-personnel landmines. Other landmines are okay just as long as they aren't anti-personnel. |
| 22:11 | jnettle | 22:11 * jnettlet kicks off a new xorg build to fix this stupid bug. |